Sarah Enni (WriteOnCon Interview)


WriteOnCon: Sarah Enni - Transcript #197

Date: February 8, 2019

I spoke with the team behind WriteOnCon about my path to publication.

The original post for this episode can be found here.

Sue Stanley Welcome! You’re listening to a 2019 WriteOnCon podcast. This is Sue Stanley from the WriteOnCon team. I’m thrilled to chat today with Young Adult author Sarah Enni about long roads to publication. Sarah, thank you so much for joining me.

Sarah Enni Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Sue Stanley For those of you who may not know, Sarah is the author of the Young Adult novel Tell Me Everything which is coming out on February 26th – very exciting! Less than a month to go for you… of this year, obviously… from Scholastic and a short story in the New York Times Bestselling Anthology Because You Love to Hate Me.

She is also the creator and host of the FIRST DRAFT PODCAST. So Sarah, can you tell us a bit about yourself?

Sarah Enni Well, everything you just said is correct. I’ve been writing Young Adult books for about ten years. And for about four of those years I’ve also been doing the First Draft Podcast where I interview other writers, mostly it has been Young Adult to this point. A whole lot of people like Leigh Bardugo, Veronica Roth, Victoria Aveyard and learning a lot about writing as I am going on the journey myself.

I started writing in Washington D.C. but have moved to Los Angeles where I live with my cat.

Sue Stanley [laughing] It’s a nice warm place to live. Much warmer this week, especially than Washington D.C.

Sarah Enni Oh yes, very much.

Sue Stanley So, you mentioned your publishing journey, that you’ve been writing for ten years. And our topic today is “The Long Road to Publication”. So, can you tell us about that journey – your personal journey to publication?

Sarah Enni  Honestly, in preparation for this interview [chuckles], in preparation for this interview, I made a publishing timeline like a google doc, where I went through all of my emails, went to the internet archive to go through my blog posts. I started a blog in 2009 and I was going through my posts in 2010. Boy, I gotta tell ya, I don’t recommend that. It was really tough to go back – all the way back – to track that. Both because it’s a long time, and because it was a really personal journey that was marked by, you know, the progress of a life.

So, I’ll just start with… basically, I started writing in 2009 in the wake of my dad passing away. He died suddenly in December 2008. And at the time I was a journalist, and I was studying English, and had always thought about writing. I knew I was a strong writer and I loved books, but I never thought about being an author.

When my dad died, I kind of had a reckoning about what I was doing and decided that I wanted to give it a try. If not now, when? So, I started writing my very first book in January 2009. I finished that in about a year and it was just an epic, sprawling, wild… you know? I think a lot of people, with their first books, bite off more than they can chew and that was certainly the case with me. But it taught me how to write a book, and it taught me how to finish a book, which is a very important lesson.

So then in 2010, I started writing I guess “quote-unquote” real books. Books that had a more legitimate chance of being published and I pursed traditional publication. Since then I’ve written seven books and it just took a long time.

I got an agent in 2013, who is still my agent today. Sarah Burns at The Gernert Company. She’s wonderful, and she’s been hugely supportive, even though since 2013, it took a long time for my debut book TELL ME EVERYTHING to come about.

Again, honestly, making this publishing timeline right before talking to you kind of threw me for a loop, because I’m not someone who looks back very often. When I think about it on a larger scale, spending ten years writing seven books, it was worth that time. I think I was basically doing an apprenticeship for myself. I read so much, I made so many writer friends, I started the podcast. I just needed that time to gestate and become a better writer. And I couldn’t be more thrilled to have TELL ME EVERYTHING be the book that is my first book. I’m extremely proud of it. And I absolutely could not have written TELL ME EVERYTHING any sooner. I think that it is the best book I could write, right now. And I’m really proud of that.

Sue Stanley So TELL ME EVERYTHING is the seventh book you wrote? Or does it fall earlier?

Sarah Enni Yes.

Sue Stanley It is the seventh book that you wrote?

Sarah Enni Yes.

Sue Stanley Is that the one that got representation in 2013? Or was there something else that got representation in 2013?

Sarah Enni It was something else. It was the third book that I wrote which is – colloquially, to me and my friends – called BRIGHT LIGHTS at this point.  My agent was and is so supportive of that. I’m actually re-writing that project right now, which is exciting. So those seven books haven’t gone away, there’s a couple that I would like to revisit and possibly seek publication for. But no, the book that got me my agent is not TELL ME EVERYTHING.

And actually, BRIGHT LIGHTS, the book that got me my agent, it went all the way to acquisitions. So, it went to an editor who was hugely supportive of it in her house. She was so excited and brought it to acquisitions and her publisher told her no. So it was a really tough moment. It got very far, but ultimately came up short. In the wake of that disappointment is when I started the FIRST DRAFT PODCAST because I was really looking to other writers to say like, “Hey, have you been through this experience? What have you learned? What’s good advice you have? Can I get inspired by you?”

And it was really inspiring. I talked to a lot of authors through that about their own long publishing journeys, and I found it to be really helpful in motivating me to keep going.

Sue Stanley That must have been awful.

Sarah Enni [laughing] It was. It was intense. The worst part was that that happened in March. I got the call saying, “Unfortunately, no.” And then a couple of months later I got divorced. So, that was another thing that added to starting the podcast.

Sue Stanley Huh… what a great year for new beginnings.

Sarah Enni 2014 was a real [pauses], it was a real time for me personally which, again, contributes to going back and talking about a publishing journey – a long publishing journey – you really can’t separate that from your personal journey, you know? We can’t separate writing from ourselves personally anyway. I don’t think we would even try to. But looking back over the last ten years… yeah, it’s been a lot of trials. But all of those things made me a better writer.

Sue Stanley So, there’s that story [both laugh]. What is the most important piece… okay, this question seems really cliché… but what is the most important piece of advice or guidance that you can give to an author just starting the publication journey?

Sarah Enni Well, a couple of things. You sent me a few questions ahead of time that I had time to look at, and they’re such good ones. I’m really excited to chat about these. When I was thinking about the most important piece of advice, I really am thinking about having patience. Not only with the publishing process, which as well all know is very convoluted, and takes time, and it’s completely out of our control… a lot of elements of it.  But also have patience with yourself.

A lot of people start writing, and get very excited about the idea of being published. And that is exciting and it’s worth working towards passionately, but you also need to take time to reflect on your writing. Writing a good book takes time. Letting it rest takes time. Revising it takes time. And all of those elements you just can’t rush them if you want to do your best possible work. So, patience is a huge thing.

And I was thinking about being curious. I think that’s my advice to almost everybody in life in general, be curious. And in this context what I mean is be curious about writing. Read books about writing. Read widely in the genre that you are writing in. Read widely in general. Be curious about your industry. Learn about how it works. Learn about how people get paid. Learn about how people make a sustainable living. Learn about everybody that goes into the process of making a book happen because it’s not just editors. There’s a lot of people that go through the process of bringing your book into the world. Learn about your co-workers. Be curious about other writers. Be curious about their process. Be curious about their lives and how they care for themselves. I think curiosity is an undervalued trait. And it’s something that got me through… absolutely.

Sue Stanley That’s great advice. Actually, that’s very good advice. So, this is obviously in your opinion, or in your experience, what do you think it is that causes some publishing journeys to be short, sweet, fast, and others to take a long time?

Sarah Enni [Chuckles] This is such an interesting question because the true answer is like a big old shrug emoji [both laugh]. Serendipity? Zeitgeist? You absolutely cannot know what your publishing journey is going to be and it is not reflective of how hard you work. Or sometimes even the quality of your words. And I’m saying this as an effort to say, “Don’t blame yourself. If it takes a long time, it takes a long time.” And that can be a gift, honestly. If I had published anything before TELL ME EVERYTHING I think I’d be embarrassed by the book that was out in the world. So I’m very grateful that it took this long because I just needed to be a better writer.

But going back to your question, what takes so long? Let’s be honest about what some things are. Some things are writing goals. Some people just want to write for fun and if that’s how you start then you’re probably not going to write as fast or in the same way as someone who really is focused on publication. So your goals, obviously, shape your journey to publication Also what type of publication. You might write faster if you’re looking to self-publish or to put things out in the world in that way, or maybe short stories versus novels.

So, your goals for what kind of things you want to write will also determine your journey. And people’s time. Your personal time. What else do you have going on in your life? What is your style of writing? Do you slowly piece together sentences? Or, are you someone who fast drafts and just wants to vomit something out and then get a lot of feedback on it.  All of those things are gonna determine how long it takes for you. But they’re also things that you can’t, or shouldn’t, or should be hesitant to change. Because I think everyone needs to respect their personal process. Once you find what works for you, if it takes a long time, that’s just what it is. And you should settle in and make peace with that so that you have that happy time when you are writing.

And then, yes, zeitgeist, trends, serendipity. There are just things you just can’t control. And it takes time to find the right agent for you. It takes time to find the right editor for you, and the right publishing house for you, and the right story for you.

Sometimes we want to write vampires and the world is sick of vampires, so we can’t control that. I still think you should write what you’re passionate about. But, the world doesn’t always agree with us.

Sue Stanley So, let’s talk about a very simple question. Define long.

Sarah Enni [Chuckles] You know, I [Pauses as a motorcycle revs past]. Sorry, motorcycles. This is a good question, but I’m not sure that it’s really useful to define long. I don’t know that thinking about it that way is entirely useful because it depends on the person. And it depends on how they have thought about the time that they’ve spent pursuing publication and what you were able to achieve in that time.

For example, I would certainly look back on my ten years and say that that was a long time. But it also was a time that I moved, I got married and divorced, I grieved, I relocated my life, I got a cat! I started the podcast. I changed careers. I did a lot of things in that ten years. So, it is a long time but it was a productive, useful, wonderful time. I don’t have a metric. I think that we can certainly say that short is anything less than a year and beyond that it’s kind of up to you and your perspective.

Sue Stanley Yeah. That’s very true. The reason I ask the question is because I was thinking about authors coming in with an expectation that they’re gonna write a book, they’re gonna do something like NaNoWriMo [National Novel Writing Month] in November and they’re gonna put out a book, and they’re gonna get an editor a month after that, and they’re gonna have a publishing contract a month after that.

If you are a new writer that might be an expectation, when in reality that does not happen. I mean, I guess it could, it’s probably happened to a few people, but…

Sarah Enni It’s very unlikely, right? I would say if someone started writing… if someone on day one said, “Okay. I’m gonna write seriously.” If they published a book within five years, I would be incredibly impressed. That is just not common. And that’s okay! It’s hard to tell someone who’s just a starting writer that, but honestly that’s the way it goes. I signed the contract for TELL ME EVERYTHING in May 2016 and it comes out in February 2019. We did have to delay a little bit because I had to burn down a couple of drafts and start all over again, but it also isn’t that unusual.

Sue Stanley Right, and I think people don’t, if they haven’t been in the publishing industry, they don’t necessarily realize how long it is. The editing process is done and the book is ready to go, how long it takes to actually get it into production and get it out in the stores.

Sarah Enni Oh man, so long. Friends who aren’t in the publishing industry have been asking me, “When is your... ? Isn’t your book already out?” And I was like, “No. It just sold three years ago.” Now there’s a date on the calendar and we just have to wait.

Sue Stanley And it’s an exciting wait though and you’re almost through it! You are almost done.

Sarah Enni My god, now I finally can… yes. And all my friends in email being like, “Here’s the book. It’s real. Buy it on this day.”

Sue Stanley Now go buy it!

Sarah Enni Yes, exactly.

Sue Stanley At this time, on this day, from this venue. Please! [laughing] Okay, you’ve talked about this a little bit, but what did you do to keep your morale up during this long process? This ten years. Especially, I would think, between 2013, or 2014 when your book did not get picked up after having an editor. To when you actually did sign and you knew that it was actually gonna happen for you. How did you keep your morale up during that time?

Sarah Enni This is a really good question and it’s gonna be different for everybody, but for me making friends with other writers was, and has been, a pivotal thing in my life.  I joined Twitter in 2009 and I met an enormous number of other Young Adult writers and those, largely women, have contributed to my life in innumerable ways. They’ve completely reshaped me as a person. They shared my passions, they shared my interests, they were supportive at all times and they got to know this nascent part of me – this writer part of me – that still other people who are in my life in other capacities don’t totally understand.

So, finding writer friends, people who are there in the trenches with you is unbelievably important. They are the ones who will understand the ups and downs of this industry the way no one can.  My mom doesn’t need to know what sub write drama is going on in my life. That isn’t something you need other people in your life to know or care about. In fact, you should have non-writer friends too who can put things in perspective. But your writer friends are the ones who are gonna say, “No, you need to write this book because I want to read it.” Like, “I don’t care what happens with it eventually, but what you’ve shared is so good, I really want you to finish this draft.” That’s hugely important.

And then I think the other thing that kept my morale up was pursing hobbies and activities outside of writing, having the podcast even though we talk about writing a bunch, it’s really just an excuse to have fun conversations with people and to learn. As you know, learning how to put a podcast together - very cool. Very not related to books. Very challenging. Involves a bunch of cool equipment and stuff like that and so I really enjoyed having that on the side.

I exercise a bunch. I started boxing, you know? Things like that were very separate. I’ve been doing improv for the last year. It works my creative brain but wow it couldn’t be more different from writing a book. So those things are huge. And the last thing that I’m gonna say that is also incredibly important, what kept my morale up was that I was writing books I was proud of. I wanted to go back to those books because they meant something to me. I was interested in the ideas that I was exploring through those books and that’s what kept me passionate about going back to the projects and writing them over and over again.

I saw myself improve because I was committed to it and when you take a month off of a book and you go back and read it and you’re like, “Wow! This is not crap!” That is a really heartening moment and those moments really, really would buoy me for a long time.

Sue Stanley That’s great. And taking a break is a really good idea too. Sometimes it takes that to realize that you are writing something that’s worthwhile.

Sarah Enni Yes, and honestly a month minimum. The longer you can take away from your book the better you’re gonna be at tackling the problems it has when you finally get back to it. Take that seriously, please!

Sue Stanley Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, you’re experience is not this one, but I know you talk to a lot of different authors so I’m wondering if you have any insight into what happens when an author winds up going through single agents where a project an agent picks up doesn’t sell, the relationship begins to deteriorate over time because it’s not selling, or because the fit isn’t right. And the same with an editor. You had that experience where the editorial relationship had to end. Not because of the editor but because of the publishing house. When do you think it’s time to move on? When do you know, or what can you recommend for making that kind of a difficult decision about moving on from an agent or an editor?

Sarah Enni That’s a great question and like you said, it is a very difficult decision. Let’s talk about agents first because they’re so personal. When you have an agent, you are in a relationship with that person. This isn’t true for all industries that have agents. I actually know people in Los Angeles who have an agent for film or television and that relationship is very different. But for us, in books, you agent is your advocate. They are someone who is your first point of contact. The person who’s there to support you and encourage you and help you achieve your goals. And I would say that if you are in that kind of a relationship and your needs aren’t being met, then you need to be very serious about whether that is the right relationship for you.

Like a romantic relationship, an agent has to cater to your specific needs and if that isn’t happening you need to have a really serious conversation with your agent about what your needs are. Communicate what you want to see and how they can improve, and if things don’t change, I think then you have to move on. And move on with gratitude and not a sense of loss. I think people really beat themselves up over lost time and that isn’t… I just wish I could erase that. Because that creates you from making good, bold, necessary changes in your life including leaving an agent that is just not meeting your needs and is not right for you. There’s a lot of agents out there now. They’re all on-line. You can research them. You can find a lot of people who are going to be great for you. So, that’s what I would say. If you’re needs aren’t being met and after a serious discussion they don’t change and adjust to meet your needs, then yeah, you need to move on.

An editor is kind of a whole different barrel of worms, or whatever the idiom I’m looking for is. Once you sell to an editor that’s it. And if you are having trouble with them, that’s when you need an agent who’s gonna step in and help things work smoothly and adjust. Before you sell your book, often you’ll get the chance to hop on the phone with an editor… that’s huge… get on the phone with them. Don’t be shy. Don’t let a fear of being on the phone prevent you from having that kind of intimate conversation with someone before you sign on to work with them with your precious book. You want to hear their voice. You want to hear their enthusiasm. You want to get a sense of their ideas and see if you guys are gonna be a good match. Because that’s another year-and-a-half or two years of your life working with this person on something very important to you.

So, protect yourself up-front and get a sense if this is a person you want to work with and then if it isn’t working, having your agent step in… you know, those are really tough relationships but it’s hard to say – pick up and leave an editor. That’s a challenge, because then you can sell another project elsewhere, or things like that, but that’s when contracts get involved. So, it’s very case-by-case basis kind of stuff.

Sue Stanley What I was thinking of… that’s true, and once you’re under contract, I think you’re just gonna have to suck it up and deal with whoever it is that you have and hopefully that works really well. What I was thinking about when I wrote that question, was really how to deal with the revise and resubmit requests.

Sarah Enni Oh yes, right.

Sue Stanley So, when you are working with an editor and they’re saying, “Hey, do this and then I’ll read it again.” And then, “Do this and I’ll read it again.” When is it time to say, “No. I’m not gonna revise anymore because I don’t believe that you’re actually gonna go through with a contract. This is just taking a lot of my time. I’m not sure that it’s gonna work.”

Sarah Enni Yes, yes. Such an important distinction. I think it’s so important to emphasize that when you’re talking about revising and resubmitting for an editor… please keep in mind that is free work. They are asking you to take a lot of time and energy and apply changes without paying you first.  Without giving you an advance. So that’s something to really keep in mind. Is it worth it for you? Also, it depends on their notes. If you get an “R&R” note from an editor… if those notes feel off to you, or are not the right thing for the book, that’s right there your sign. Walk away. Be at peace and leave and find another opportunity.

If you’re excited by their notes, if you think they really get the book and you want to implement those changes, by all means do it. I had this experience and when they came back and asked me for a second pass of revision, my agent stepped in and said, “This is free work and it’s not worth it at this point. I think we need to move on and find either someone else who wants this book, or you need to work on something else.” Cause exhaustion is real too at that point. I’d been working on the same project for three years and my agent, very wisely, said, “You’re getting burned out. And I know that your potential is such that we can bravely move on to something new.”

And I was really happy to have her step in at that point because I was ready to run myself into the ground and she saw that and said, “Let’s just take a breather and come back to it at another time.” And that was really smart.

Sue Stanley So, it sounds like the over-arching relationship that matters the most is the one that you have with your agent, when you get to that point, so that your agent is the one who can help you to make the best decision about an R&R request.

Sarah Enni Absolutely. They’re clear-eyed and they’ve seen this many more times than any of us. So they have a thirty thousand foot view of things and we are so tied in to our personal work that it can be very hard to get perspective. So, that is definitely where your agent is very pivotal.

Sue Stanley So, if you receive an R&R request from an agent, in other words, I know some authors who submitted work and an agent will come back and say, “Well, I’m interested but I’d like to see if you can do this, that, or the other thing. And make this, that, or the other change.” What do you think is the… are there guidelines or do you have suggestions for how to make that decision? Because author’s can be very desperate, and sometimes agents, editors, and anyone in the publishing industry – just like any other industry – are not super ethical. So, what’s the best way to know whether that is a good decision for an author to try to make those changes to get the representation. And when is it time to say, “No thank you, I’m gonna keep looking.”

Sarah Enni This is a great thing to talk about. First and foremost, it is so important – just like I said – it’s important to frame an R&R as free work. It’s important too, when you are seeking representation, to recognize that you have created something out of thin air. Writers are magical people. We create things that other people want. And we often spin that around in our own minds and think, “Ah, who’s going to give me the gift of putting my work out into the world?” And that is just a massive miscalculation of how this works.

The power starts with us. We created this thing. We have worlds. And other people need to prove to us that they are the right people to help bring those worlds to other people. So, I really implore everyone listening to keep in mind that power dynamic when they are moving forward with making professional decisions. Because I think the other way of coming from a place of need, of want, of willing to do anything to have your work out in the world… that leads you to devalue yourself and to engage in relationships that are not fruitful for you and to put up with relationships and treatment that is not acceptable.

So, going forward, thinking about who is the best person to be at my side while I bring my best work into the world – that’s the way to move forward and think about it, I think. [Chuckles] I wanted to make sure I said that at first, and now I’m losing my train for the rest of it. Um, the agent R&R, that was it?

Sue Stanley Yes.

Sarah Enni Because the other thing that I wanted to say is that I had this experience in not the book that got me my agent, but the one before. I queried and I had a lovely agent be very interested and give me an R&R. I thought her notes were fantastic. So I went through the manuscript and implemented her notes and then I sent the revised version back to her and she ghosted me. I never heard back.

So, that was a really upsetting experience, but not an uncommon one, right? So, I would say if you get notes from anyone and they just feel right then, of course, take those notes. That’s your prerogative. Do what you would like with them. It’s worth it. Most other R&R’s, I think, do get a response. Are engaged with by the other party. But if someone wants you to do multiple rounds of R&R before they have signed you, before they have shown… I would just be hesitant about that.

One R&R and then either they’re willing to sign you because they’ve seen that you can work hard. They’ve seen that you can revise. They’ve seen that your visions match. Or, it’s time to move on to someone else. I think there’s not a lot of benefit to being strung along for months, or years, on the hopes of one person signing you when you could be finding representation elsewhere, working with other people, and moving on in more  constructive ways.

Sue Stanley So, that brings me to the most painful question of all, and that is, after the R&R requests, after the rejections or the waiting, or however long it is, when is it time to pull the plug on a project? At least for the time being and submit something new?

Sarah Enni Yeah, that is such a hard one and I’ve had to do it and it’s, um [pauses], and you can feel very defeated sometimes by projects. But man, also sometimes letting go of a project feels like being set free. So, be open to that possibility too. Sometimes a book only serves you to help get you to another place. Keep in mind, that’s always a possibility.

When I was thinking about this question, it’s a tough one because it’s different for every author, of course, I would say often I’ve seen friends… if you’re stuck and you can’t get unstuck. If you’re like a Jeep in the mud and the tires just keep flinging stuff back and you can’t seem to get anywhere even when you try different approaches, or different styles of writing, or you switch up your routine, and you still can’t move forward with it, at least take a month off and see where you come back to. At least give yourself a little mini-vacation to think about other things or something like that. And if you just can’t get unstuck… don’t force it.

There’s something to be said for it. And you don’t always have to think about leaving a project as abandoning it forever. We like to say, “Put it in a drawer.” Right? Put it in a drawer. It will be there. And if you feel like you need to come back to it, trust that you will know when the right time for that is.

The other thing I was thinking of is if you’re sick of it. And by sick of it I mean sick of the project itself and not the process – and those are two really different things – if you’re sick of the process, then maybe it’s time to try writing at night instead, or try writing on your phone for a little bit, or mixing up the process and how you go about it. Maybe try outlining. There’s a lot of different things you can do to reinvigorate your creative mind to tackle the project the way it deserves.

But if you’re sick of these characters. If you’re sick of this book. If you’re sick of this world. If you’re sick of this setting. Oh my gosh. Life is too short, you know? I look back at the books that I’ve written and I’m still not sick of any of them. I still love the people that are in those books. I still love the setting, I still love what I was trying to say, I love the ideas that are in there. Man, sometimes I got sick of the process with it. And I got sick of being in the same thing and needed to move on and try something new to gain perspective.

But if you are sick of the book itself… definitely move on [chuckles]. Because life is too short.

Sue Stanley If you never want to talk to those people again, right?

Sarah Enni Yeah, right.

Sue Stanley Time to let them go.

Sarah Enni Right. I think we’ve all probably had relationships like that or friendships like that, where it’s like sometimes books just serve you for who you are at that time. And they don’t need to follow you forever. So, you don’t have to pledge allegiance to any one project for the rest of your life. Please don’t!

Sue Stanley Excellent advice. So, our time is about up and I want to remind everyone that Sarah has the podcast, the First Draft Podcast, which you can find. And Sarah, I want to give you the opportunity to talk about your website and any other places where people can find you and your book coming out in about a month. Exactly a month, actually, from today.

Sarah Enni Exactly a month. Isn’t that exciting? So, Tell Me Everything comes out February 26th. The quick pitch for it is, what if Amelie had Instagram? It’s a contemporary YA. Kind of a quirky one. If that sounds fun to you, you should check out more about it at And is where you can sign up for my newsletter and all that stuff. I’m @sarahenni on Twitter and Instagram and the First Draft Podcast has, as of today, one-hundred-and-seventy-five other episodes with writers who have gone through the gamut of all kinds of experiences. So, if your listeners want to get a little bit more perspective maybe from some other favorite YA writers, definitely go to You can look at the archives. I’ve talked to so many different people. There’s so much to learn at the podcast. You can also sign up for the newsletter for the podcast and find it at  firstdraftpod on Twitter and Instagram as well.

Sue Stanley Thank you very much. That’s fantastic. A lot of information available and I really appreciate your time today Sarah.

Sarah Enni Yeah, your questions were so good, thank you for all that you’re providing for the community. This is a huge resource so I’m excited for it to be in the world.

Sue Stanley Thank you.


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