First Draft Episode #271: Opening the Mailbag with Lilliam Rivera
September 17, 2020
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This week is a new mailbag episode, where I--along with a very special guest--will answer listener questions! Joining me today is Lilliam Rivera, author of The Education of Margot Sanchez, Dealing in Dreams, Goldie Vance: The Hotel Whodunit, and her newest YA novel, Never Look Back, a retelling of the Greek myth Orpheus and Eurydice set in the Bronx (out now)!
Welcome to First Draft with me, Sarah Enni. This week I'm answering listener questions with Lilliam Rivera, author of The Education of Margot Sanchez, Dealing in Dreams, Goldie Vance: The Hotel Whodunit, and her newest YA novel, Never Look Back, a retelling of the Greek myth of Orpheus and Eurydice which is set in the Bronx, is out now.
Everything Lilliam and I talk about on today's episode can be found in the show notes. First Draft participates in affiliate programs specifically with bookshop.org. So that means that shopping through the links on FirstDraftPod.com helps to support the show and independent bookstores at no additional cost to you. If you'd like to donate directly to First Draft either on a one-time or monthly basis, you can go to paypal.me/FirstDraftPod.
Finally, if you have any writing or creativity questions you'd like me and a guest to answer in another upcoming mailbag episode, you can call and leave your question at First Draft's voicemail that's at (818) 533-1998. Or you can record yourself asking the question and email that to me [at] mailbag [at] FirstDraftPod [dot] com.
Okay, now please sit back, relax, and enjoy this Q&A mailbag conversation with Lilliam Rivera.
Sarah Enni: How are you Lilliam? It's so good to see you.
Lilliam Rivera: I'm good. I'm good. It's good to see you too. I always love doing this.
Sarah Enni: It's always so fun to chat with you. And I want to encourage listeners to... you have been on the show in the OG format of First Draft a couple of times, and I'm gonna link to that in the show notes, people should definitely listen to your episodes. But this is gonna be a fun one where we answer listener questions. And we've got a bunch of great questions from listeners. So let's dive in and get right to it.
I love this first question. There's all kinds of hidden shade in this question, which I wish I could ask. It's from Tyco Helen, I believe. Tyco Helen wants to know, "What qualities do you look for in author friends? And is it different than for normal friends?" And "normal" is in quotes, which I really love.
Lilliam Rivera: I literally cackled when I read that, cause it was the first question and I was just like, "This is hilarious." Oh man, what do I look for in author friends? Okay, so then the thing is like, when you start this journey of publishing, you really do need to find people who you could confide in, who could give you advice and how to navigate certain situations. You know, publishing is a business. So you can't just dive in with stars in your eyes like, "Oh, this agent loves me and now it's paved in gold... my journey." No, it's a business. So you should really be well informed.
And so when I first started out, there were people that I loved who I knew beforehand, like Meg Medina (the New York Times bestselling and Newberry Medalist author of Merci Suárez Changes Gears, Yaqui Delgado Wants to Kick Your Ass, and most recently, Evelyn del Rey is Moving Away), who I love. And so I would ask for advice from her and from Matt de la Pena (New York Times bestselling and Newberry Medalist author of Last Stop on Market Street, Love, and Mexican Whiteboy). These are two authors who's work really informed the way I wrote. And so I was their fan before I started publishing or even querying.
And so are they different? I mean, maybe. They're the same in the sense that I know a lot of people, but I'm not close to a lot of people. I'm friends with a lot of people, but my circle is very small, there's like five of us, maybe. Five authors who I'm always talking to or on a group chat. And so I just keep it very small. Because you just want to confide. There's like publishing secrets. You can't share it all out there. And then you have to hope that your friend is gonna keep it as quiet as you are.
Sarah Enni: I think that you're bringing up a really good point. I would say I'm really similar. There's like five or six... kind of the threshold I like to think about it is like, "Who are my writer friends in my life that I could be like, "Listen, between you and me, you have to tell me how much you got paid for that book." Like, "I need to know numbers."
Lilliam Rivera: I mean, those are your friends. You want someone to say, "Hey, I got paid this much." And then you're like, "Okay, now I know where to go."
Sarah Enni: And you share info and you trust that person, right? So you need the inner small circle of people where it's like, "We can talk numbers, we can talk disappointments. I'm never gonna hold anything against you. Same vice versa." So you have that core group, just like your tight besties in real life, normal friends. But for an author friendship, you have to find the people that you're comfortable talking about creative difficulties with, which is a whole other thing.
And like you're saying business stuff. You gotta find people who are in the same mode as you. I think that's just a compatibility thing. Like people who are interested in being public to the same degree that you are, or interested in approaching their career the similar ways that you are. It'd be hard for me to be friends with a writer who wanted to go live in the woods for five years and not talk to anybody. You know what I mean? We wouldn't be similar.
Lilliam Rivera: Right. That wouldn't be the same thing. No, I mean, it's true. It's a hard industry in a sense, cause you are so alone in a lot of ways. So then you need to connect with people and you need to exchange ideas and definitely information. Because of that, I remember when I was first starting and I'll be like, "Meg", like I would just text her, "Meg, I don't understand. Should I be at this conference?" And then she'll be like, "Yes! You should be at this conference. They should send you." And all this stuff. And I had no idea. I was so clueless.
And all of this is just the beginning of school visits and conferences and festivals and all this stuff. When you first starting, it's so overwhelming and you don't know. And no one tells you. There's no booklet about it, no guidebook for it.
Sarah Enni: No. Although everyone should listen to Track Changes, which does give you some basic info. I will just put a plug in there for that. But when it comes to the nitty-gritty of your career. And how do you feel, I'm gonna ask it this way, a lot of my people who I feel super, super trustful level with, are people that I met even before. Like we were all just back before agents, before anything, we were just kind of writing and on blogs together. And so my friends have been with me for like 10 plus years now.
Lilliam Rivera: Yeah. I mean, I definitely have a couple of friends like that who we were just starting, we were just in a fellowship or something, or just the beginning stages of it all. Or in a writer's group, you know, just sharing our stories. And so, yeah, I totally get it. Like, I totally get that. But those are the people you want to be like, "Okay, we're in this journey together. Maybe you're ahead of me. Maybe I'm behind." Or whatever it is, it doesn't matter. You're just sharing information. So that's how you pick your friends, like normal.
Sarah Enni: Yeah. It's funny cause I think the difference in normal versus author is just the kind of things you're gonna talk about are gonna be, it's just about people who maybe have a similar approach to you with writing, or think about creativity in similar ways. And then think about the business in similar ways. And god help you, please have quote, unquote, "normal" friends who want to talk about not books, you know? Like anything else.
Lilliam Rivera: Anything else like seriously, like just about TV [laughs].
Sarah Enni: Okay. That was such a fun question. I love that one. Okay, there's some fun craft questions that we got as well. This one is from Maria Frazier. Maria wants to ask, oh, I love this one, "For outlining, how do you know what's gonna happen in your plot before you write the book?" I mean, good question.
Lilliam Rivera: So good. Oh man. Well, I do an outline for sure. For me to start a project, I really have to know how it begins somewhat. Like I have to know the beginning and I have to know how it ends. So I usually have an image or, you know, a feeling. And so when I have that idea and I've worked through some plot points, but not hugely, but then I'll write an outline. But I really can't begin a project until I know how it starts and how it ends.
And then I'll write an outline and then I don't look at the outline. I just write. And then I just write and whatever tangent I might end up taking, I just allow it to happen. Because it's a first draft and most of it is gonna be trashed anyway. So you just want to allow yourself to be creative and be kind of free-wheeling and not impose anything. And an outline might feel like an imposition. It might be like rules or something you have to follow. And so I try to do that for the most part.
Sarah Enni: Yeah. Also, it's been a minute actually, since I just started outlining something brand new, cause I tend to rewrite and rewrite and rewrite, which is something I'm working on. But I'm thinking when you have a good idea though, to your point, you should probably have a sense of like, "Here's the main characters, at least the ones that I know of." And what's their main conflict? You don't have to know exactly where they end up, but I think in general where they end up.
And then I think you just start thinking like, "What are my characters like? What is their priority? What do they want? What's preventing them from getting what they want?" And that's gonna generate some things that happen in your book. Right? And then you can kind of just jot those down. See what sounds interesting. See what doesn't.
I think outlining can be really useful just to be like, "Let's just write everything out of what could happen, or what's at the top of mind, and then see if things make sense in a linear way." You can use it for that. And then like you're saying, totally throw it away, just write a first draft and see where it goes once you're actually in there.
Lilliam Rivera: Yeah. I mean, I think I have to rely more on outlines now, if I'm doing a project that's not an original project. So if someone hired me to write a book, like Goldie Vance, I was asked to write the Goldie Vance books. So we went over the outline so I had a somewhat thorough outline and then, you know, they approved it and then I wrote according to that outline, for the most part. But that was just a different kind of beast. Cause I had to really focus on what Goldie Vance, that world is already rich, so it wasn't my original world.
Sarah Enni: That's also a mystery story, which you can't really free-wheel it with mystery so much. They require so much... what's the word? Discipline, I think is the word.
Lilliam Rivera: Yes. Yeah, it was tricky. It was funny though, but it was a good way for me to like, "Okay, you have to be really kind of focused." And every single word is necessary. Or if not, it's just tossed out.
Sarah Enni: Okay. And this kind of goes back to the friend question, actually. Maria Frazier brought another question to us which is, "How do you keep yourself from exploding when you have publishing secrets?"
Lilliam Rivera: Oh man. That's, yeah, that's true. Thank goodness I could share some things. For example, I recently announced that I was doing a Star Wars short story. Now Star Wars is notorious, they don't want you to talk to anybody. They're just like, "Keep it quiet." And you know, you're just like, "Okay, I can't say a thing." So I told my family and then I just had to wait and it was months.
I didn't even tell my friends and my friends are like, "How dare you?" But I was just like, "Cause I couldn't." I felt like if I started, it'll just go on, like, I'll just tell everybody. I'll tell everybody on the streets. So yeah. That's hard. It's hard to keep secrets especially when you know that you have to wait almost a year sometimes.
Sarah Enni: And I'm trying to think about a way to say that's not... I hate thinking that I'm pouring cold water on people when they listen to these, but I'm also like, "Yeah, you have to keep secrets." And then, once you do get to announce it, it does feel different, you know? Cause you've been living with it as a reality for a while.
Lilliam Rivera: It's true.
Sarah Enni: There are some ways in which you're like, "Okay." So I think that in order to not explode from keeping those secrets, you do have a couple of people that you can tell. You can always talk to your agent as well, which is great. I think it's important to find an agent that can be this for you, somebody who's gonna cheer with you and celebrate with you. And then your family and your super tight friends who are on "cone of silence under penalty of death" level friends.
Lilliam Rivera: You know, because not even a hint online, like don't even like say anything. If you know that they say something, then you might have to rethink this whole friendship.
Sarah Enni: Yeah, they can't be costing you Star Wars contracts. No, no! I love that. Okay. I really, really am interested in your feedback on this question. This is from Bridget F. Bishop and she wants to know, "How do you deal with the feeling when you're drafting a book that what I'm doing isn't important?"
Lilliam Rivera: That's me every day. That's literally me just going to the blank page and trying not to... I wake up with doubt every day. So I've done this, which I do in my classes when I'm teaching or leading a workshop or something, is that I'll do a fear list. And I'll just write a list of all my fears of why I feel like I'm not ready for this project, or no one's gonna buy it, or it's gonna suck, blah, blah, blah. And I just write it out until I do it for like 10 minutes or something. And then I delete it afterwards or I throw the paper away and then I work.
So that's usually what I try to do. I just write a fear list. And there's doubts. There's always doubts. But it's the beginning. It's never finished. It's never complete. So even when it's in a book form, I could easily edit the books that I've published. And I'm just like, "I could rewrite this whole thing right now." So, it's just a matter of giving it to someone else and getting that feedback.
Sarah Enni: Yeah. I really like that, writing a fear list, that totally makes sense. And then, we're dipping into just straight up therapy territory now, but I feel like you could write a fear list and then think to yourself like, "Why do I have that fear? Is that rooted in the real world?" Like, "This book isn't gonna sell any copies." Well, ultimately, I don't have control over that, right? I'm afraid of that because I'm a human being and I care about my career, so, okay.
That's the fear everyone has so we can cross that out. "Am I worried that my writing is gonna suck today?" Well, that's guaranteed. That's not so much a fear as an acknowledgement of reality so, okay! But guess what? We get the rest of X period of time to make it better.
So I think that maybe it's so helpful to see things in black and white, and then sometimes you can be like, "That sounds like actually a fear that's there from when I was a kid." Or, "Am I worried that Twitter's gonna read...?" Something dumb like that, that you can just be like, "Nah, we don't have to actually worry about that."
Lilliam Rivera: Right. It's true. Sometimes, "Yes" to acknowledge the fear. But then also to not allow it to weigh you down because you have work to do so you can't allow it to be that barrier. And there's a lot of stories that you want to get to. So that's what I try to do.
Sarah Enni: And you know what's funny? When I read this question, I was like, "Ooh!" I don't know if you ever feel this, but sometimes when I'm writing, I get like, "This is an important work of fiction!" I get in like a frame of mind where I'm like, "Yes... America's great novel here I come!" And that's, honestly, scarier cause then you're like, "These words are garbage. You know it." Cause if you're writing in that frame of mind, it's like trash.
[Both laugh]
Lilliam Rivera: Oh my God. I don't think that's ever been myself, I always go in with just like, "This is garbage." I might have one sentence that, "Oh, okay. That might work." But most of it is just trash. So I'm just like, " God, I hope this works." I think I sent a draft to my editor for a young adult book that hopefully maybe comes out next year, and then I was like, "It is what it is." Just before Michelle Obama said it. It was like literally before that and I was just like, "Oh my god, it's out there in the air." It's like, "It is what it is. This draft is what it is."
Sarah Enni: Now you have to find the gif of her saying it. And that's just every email to an editor.
Lilliam Rivera: Exactly.
Sarah Enni: Oh, that's so funny. I love that. But I also think what you said is so important. You have a lot of stories to get to and you have work to do. And if you just say, "Well, this is my work and I just gotta sit down and do it." Then you can kind of plow through some of that stuff.
Okay. Let's see. Next question. Oh yeah, I feel this one in my heart. This is from Alison C. Dougherty. Alison asks, "How do you prepare for sub emotionally when you have previous novels that have not sold?"
So sub, Alison means, that's the process by which your agent sends your book out to editors to see if any editors want to buy it. And if you go on sub and your book doesn't get sold, like I think Alison is saying here, then you're just pretty much dunzo and you have to put that in a drawer and probably not ever come back to it, which is a whole thing.
Lilliam Rivera: Oh, the worst. Well, it's interesting. Cause for each of my novels, three novels that I went on sub for, I was away somewhere. Like I was at Clarion for six weeks or I was at a conference, like NCTE, which is a really intense conference and I was there for a long weekend. And so I was really doing a lot of stuff. So during that time my book was out and so I had to juggle a lot of stuff. So I didn't have time to be at my house waiting for the emails, like you know, refreshing. Cause I have had to do things.
And that was like the best possible solution for all that, because I am very obsessive. And so I didn't have time to be obsessive. I would check my emails. My agent would email me certain things and then he's like, "This is happening and this is happening." And I'd be like, "Okay." And then I'll just move along to whatever the next thing I had to do.
So everyone always says when you send something in for submission, you're supposed to be working on another project. And sometimes you can't do that. You know? Like that sounds like a great idea, sure, but sometimes you just can't. And so I just feel like you have to distract yourself with something, whatever it is.
Sarah Enni: Yeah. I totally agree. I love that. You could go on vacation. I know people who have timed things to be like, "Great, I'm gonna go to the Lake that week," or something and kind of get away. This is not a fair thing, but in my experience, I sold Tell Me Everything and as you said before, someone asked me to write that, so it was an unusual thing.
But before that went on sub with a book that didn't sell, it got really far to acquisitions, but it didn't sell. But that's the book that I'm writing again. So I'm gonna go on sub this fall, hopefully knock on wood. So this question really hits me right? Where I'm like, "Oh, what am I doing to prepare emotionally for that?"
Lilliam Rivera: Oh, I mean, I'm glad that you re-worked it and still like, "Let's go!" And who knows the reason behind why that one didn't sell before, you know? It could just be timing.
Sarah Enni: Totally. And the version of it now is completely different and it's so much better, so I'm so happy about it. But I'm always very grateful, I will say, in looking ahead to be like, "Well, when it goes on sub..." Something that I've been really grateful for is having the podcast cause it's something that takes up a lot of time. It's a lot of work, but it's not writing. It isn't the same as trying to sit down and access that creative brain. It's a lot of like, "Let's redesign the website." So I feel fortunate to have something else that I can turn to and kind of take up time and feel productive, but not just sit in front of my email all day.
Lilliam Rivera: Okay. So then I will add this. I didn't do this for myself, but I had a friend who was debuting, her book comes out next year, Vanessa Lynn, she's writing a YA fantasy. Anyway, so she was going on sub and I created a playlist for her. And it was so good. And she listened to it and she got paid. So there must be something there.
Sarah Enni: Ooh, there's some like magic.
Lilliam Rivera: Yeah. So maybe next time when I'm on sub I'll listen to it.
Sarah Enni: I love that. I love that. That's a great suggestion to come up with like a "pump yourself up" playlist or "distract yourself" playlist.
Lilliam Rivera: Yeah, exactly.
Sarah Enni: That's awesome. Okay, let's wrap up with this question, cause this is a great one for you Lilliam. This is [unintelligible]. I hope that I'm saying that anywhere near, correct, wants to know, "What tips do you have for writing Latinx fantasy?"
Lilliam Rivera: Okay. So what tips do I have? Whenever I'm writing fantasy or science fiction or anything like that, I'm trying to tie it to history. And because my characters are usually mostly Latinx characters, I'm tying it to their particular history; where they're coming from or anything in that sense. And so then I go through a lot of history research and also think about mythologies and folk-tales and things that are a mixed mash of history, mythologies or folktales that I grew up with. Or I discover new ones, whatever it is. So I do a lot of research in that sense and I really just base it all on some sort of hook to history somewhere.
So when it comes to fantasy, and for the most part, I'm thinking of that. Cause like I read a short story about zombies and I'm like, "Okay, so we've seen all the zombies, but what does it look like for Latino zombies?" You know? Like, "Where would that tie into?" And I start thinking about that, or reading about the history of zombies in the Latin world, whatever it is. So that's the way I try to write my Latinx fantasy science fiction stuff. For the most part.
Sarah Enni: I love that. I mean regardless, right? I find whatever genre you're writing or whatever kind of characters you're trying to represent, research will always give you gifts that you just can't find any other way. Your book is always gonna be better served by having a sense of the history of the type of people you're writing about, or the world you're writing about, or the situation you're writing about. And there's nothing better than finding something in history that's like a correlating event that you can be like, "Oh, how did it happen then? How can I use that? How could I...?" And then it just feeds your imagination.
Lilliam Rivera: Oh my God, it's so much fun. That, to me, is almost my favorite part is just digging into the history, or reading weird stuff, and you're just like, "Oh my God, I need to put that in my book somehow." I just live for that stuff.
Sarah Enni: Totally. Cause the more you write, the more you realize that humans have done every weird thing. You can find instances of the craziest fantasy world stuff and be like, "Oh no, it's definitely happened somewhere."
Lilliam Rivera: Yeah. It doesn't matter. And also if you're really digging into the history and it's only one-sided, then you gotta start reading between the lines. Cause maybe you're not seeing the Latinx influence in there. But I look for it, you know, I look for it. So yeah, you'll be surprised. I'm reading about histories about something in LA and I could barely find a nugget of where Latinos are in there. And then once I find that nugget, then I go in. And it's so much fun.
Sarah Enni: So that question to me, of course, jumps right into Dealing Into Dreams, which is your Latinx fantasy kind of future, but you also are using history and mythology in Never Look Back, which just came out. So do you mind pitching that story? And then I'd love to hear about how history kind of played into writing that.
Lilliam Rivera: Yeah, Never Look Back is a retelling of the Greek myth Orpheus and Eurydice set mostly in New York, in the Bronx for the most part. And it has a wanna be bachata-singer who falls in love with Eury, who's a displaced Puerto Rican - displaced by hurricane Maria - but also is being followed by an angry spirit. And what I loved about Peus, that's his stage name, although he loves bachata or singing bachaata, he's also a history buff. So he's always talking about the history of buildings or the history of certain places in Central Park. And I love that cause, I'm not a history buff, I fall for those kinds of things.
And so he's kind of a great person to be like, "Oh, I believe in history." Or, "I believe in dates and facts." And then he has to believe now in a spirit world, a world that he never knew existed. And so that's where they meet. One is a believer and the other person is a nonbeliever and how are they gonna have to deal? How do they battle the things that they'll have to battle.
So it was really fun writing that story, I had a great time. And also I just needed love. I wanted a love story. I wanted a horror story and a love story combined.
Sarah Enni: I was gonna say you're getting a lot at once. So that's really interesting.
Lilliam Rivera: It really is cause it's all like magical realism and then it's scary. Everything tied to the Caribbean. So it was really about me exploring the Caribbean. Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico and just the horrors of generational trauma and all those things. And then young love. Who doesn't want young love?
Sarah Enni: This is the question that everybody gets asked, but I do want to know, did you start with the myth? Or were you looking to tell a love story and then found the myth? Or how did that kind of come together?
Lilliam Rivera: I definitely started with the myth because I was obsessed with the movie Black Orpheus, which is a 1950's film and that's a retelling and it's set during carnival in Brazil. And I love that movie. I saw it in high school and I was obsessed with it. And so my sister was like, we were talking and, "I don't know what I'm gonna write. What am I gonna write?" And then she said, "You should write the Black Orpheus book. You should figure out a way of writing that." And I was like, "Oh, okay."
And so Hurricane Maria happened and I was very depressed with hurricane Maria and my parents and my family had to suffer through that. So I had to figure out a way of doing it, of writing about Hurricane Maria and my love of Black Orpheus.
Sarah Enni: We just talked about having writer friends, but then you have your sister is like, "Oh! I know exactly." Like, "Here's your homework assignment." Thanks sis!
Lilliam Rivera: I know, I was battling. I was like, "I don't know what to write next." Or, "What should I do?" And I had written a middle-grade book that did not work and I had to let that go. And so then she said that, and then the draft came out fairly quickly because of that. Cause I wanted to write it. Cause I was like, "Yeah, of course. Why not?"
Sarah Enni: Yeah. And hearing you say that, and we'll wrap up with this cause I don't want to keep you here all day, but we were talking about plot earlier and how you know what happens in a story. And just hearing you say you had this movie you loved, and then also you had the lived experience of your family in Puerto Rico and that you obviously had feelings about that and needed the space to work through it, right?
The more I've been writing in my life, and the more I've been trying to center in on what I want to do with my writing. It's kind of like, "Am I saying what I need to say?" Like, "Am I exploring the things that matter to me? And am I writing about something or is it just things happening to people?" That's kind of been a great differentiator for me to be like, "Everything in here has to matter to me. And then I think it will come across."
Lilliam Rivera: Oh my God. Yes. It's easy for me to go like, "I know what I'm gonna write. I'm gonna write about Hurricane Maria." But I couldn't do that because it would have been like, "I have so much rage and everyone I hate!" You know what I'm saying? It would have been a horrible book. And so then I was just like, "How am I gonna write about this horrible thing that's happened to my family, is happening to my family. How do I write about that without it being a rant, basically?"
And so I had to find a structure that made sense. And also I had to find hope. And that was really the key. I needed to find hope cause I did not feel hopeful. And so I needed to find hope and I found it through those characters. I found it through that myth, even though that myth is a tragedy. But I found it through that myth anyway.
Sarah Enni: I mean, those are the things that I think make writing so magic. Right? Like that's why you can devote a life to it. You find stuff about yourself. The whole job is finding meaning. And that's hard work, but it's important work.
Lilliam Rivera: Yeah. That's when you get the scary part where you're like, "Oh, I don't know if I want to go into that or write about that." And then when you know you're hesitating, that's when you know that you probably should. People will connect to it, you know? And so Never Look Back was really hard for me to write, but I'm really glad that I did it. You know, I feel like whatever I wrote, it was really literally my heart is on those pages.
Sarah Enni: Well I'm so excited for it. It's also got a gorgeous cover, which I am obsessed with.
Lilliam Rivera: I'm cover blessed, as always.
Sarah Enni: You are cover blessed. You have some incredible covers. It makes your shelves fun, I can only imagine. This has been so fun, Lilliam. It's so great to catch up with you. And I hope soon that we're in the same city. I have to get myself back home.
Lilliam Rivera: Oh my God, yes. But it was so great to see you too. And just even to talk about work and writing.
Thank you so much to Lilliam. Follow her on Twitter and Instagram @LilliamR, and follow me on both @SarahEnni (Twitter and Instagram), and the show @FirstDraftPod (Twitter and Instagram).
If you are an aspiring writer with questions about the business, or a seasoned vet who still doesn't quite understand all the nuts and bolts of publishing, be sure to check out Track Changes. The podcast mini-series that lays out just how a book goes from your laptop to the bookshelf. All nine episodes, plus four bonus episodes, are available now @FirstDraftPod.com/TrackChanges.
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Hayley Hershman produces First Draft and today's episode was produced and sound designed by Callie Wright. The theme music is by Dan Bailey and the logo was designed by Collin Keith. Thanks also to transcriptionist-at-large Julie Anderson.
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Every Tuesday, I speak to storytellers like Veronica Roth, author of Divergent; Linda Holmes, author and host of NPR’s Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast; Jonny Sun, internet superstar, illustrator of Lin-Manuel Miranda’s Gmorning, Gnight! and author and illustrator of Everyone’s an Aliebn When Ur a Aliebn Too; Michael Dante DiMartino, co-creator of Avatar: The Last Airbender; John August, screenwriter of Big Fish, Charlie’s Angels, and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory; or Rhett Miller, musician and frontman for The Old 97s. Together, we take deep dives on their careers and creative works.
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